Ill At Ease with The Mark Of Cain
The Mark of Cain need no introduction to avid Metal Fans in Australia, with an impressive career spanning nearly 40 years in the music industry, and a multitude of albums and accolades. Generated in South Australia in the early 80’s, The Mark of Cain are hitting the road once again to bring the Ill At Ease Live tour around the country in ‘23/24. The return has been well awaited by fans following the postponement at Off The Rails shows across the country earlier this year, citing serious injuries bassist Kim Scott sustained in a road cycling accident.
We revelled in the recent interview with guitarist John Scott, gaining incites for the impending ‘Ill At Ease’ Live tour, the entendre behind The Mark of Cain and the band’s recent induction into the South Australian Music Fall of Fame.
Forming in Adelaide in 1984, The Mark of Cain have consistently proven their relevance in the Australian Music scene for nearly 40 years. With 5 studio albums, 2 compilation albums, 1 live album, multiple music award nominations including an award for Best Punk Artist at the South Australian Music Awards. What can you attribute to these successes?
Being in the right place at the right time. I don't know, it's a hard one. We played because we wanted to play. We had faith in our music. It's interesting, we just played. I guess sometimes people give me their music. Like, ‘tell me if this you think this is okay’ and for me that’s a weird one, because I think you should know if your music is okay. I understand why people might want to give someone you know that they liked their music. But we always just felt that what we were doing was for us, and if we had people who enjoyed it, that was just a bonus. And we were just lucky. I don't know what would have happened if we kept playing for 10 years or whatever, five years, and no one ever came to see us, maybe we would have stopped. But we were also lucky that as we played and we did many years you know, 10 or 15 people and what not shows but then at a certain point, it flipped over in ’88 or something like that. And we started getting more people at shows. And so that in itself sort of drives you onwards, but yeah, I can't. There's no formula.
Your style has been likened to Henry Rollins and Helmet, however the band predates these international counterparts. Can you tell us about your style of music and the music artists who have inspired you?
Yeah, it's weird. Look really in all honesty. When I started The Mark of Cain, I really was heavily influenced by Joy Division. It was really a big influence, but it wasn't just, you know, the Joy Division of ‘Closer’, or those later things. What I particularly liked was their early ‘Warsaw’ persona, you know, it was very punk rock. And, I reckon when we first started, we used to cover things like ‘No Love Lost’ and stuff. And yeah, it was I wanted to write something. I liked the the lyrics of The Cure, of Robert Smith. I certainly wanted to do something that was still, call it muscular rock, but I also wanted it also to have meaningful lyrics that you could, where you could interpret in the way you want to, but you know, I wanted them to be intelligent. And I always thought, you know, people like Robert Smith write intelligent lyrics. And so, I will remember this until the day I die, one of the Sydney magazines back in the 80s said, The Mark of Cain something, ‘lyrics to make a rock man wince’. And it was like, ‘Oh, really?’ So that said I was on the right track. Because if that's the case, then fine. But really, it was this Joy Division, punk rock, we had like Buzzcocks, Pistols all that sort of stuff, but it was all mixed up. And even a bit of Black Flag. And I think we just were writing our own thing. So it was sort of influenced by those bands, but it just comes out as yours. I mean, although you can see you know, early on ‘Battlesick’. There's some real obvious Joy Div stuff there. But then we played with Big Black in ‘87. And it was interesting, Big Black played a song that night and it was like we had a song that had exactly the same riff and I just identified heavily with what they were doing. It was a riff- o- rama sort of very, again, heavy, they were a three piece. And I wanted that sort of heaviness. So we just kept on writing. And then in the early 1990, it was interesting, I was overseas at the time, and I'd already lent ‘Battlesick’ or whatever to a couple of friends where I was working, it was in Israel, actually. And one of them came up one time and said, ‘Oh, you'd really like this’. And they said, ‘these guys sound like you’. And I was like, ‘Who's this?’ And like, there was the first Helmet album called ‘Strap It On’. And I listened to that album, and I was like, Oh, wow, you know, this is definitely not exactly the same, but stepping in as similar influences or whatever. I mean, I loved all the heavy Led Zep stuff as well.
From what I can see is that you coined your own genre- I will tell you that you it was sludgy, and it's grimey, and it transcends punk. I can hear a punk element in there, but I hear that heavier sludgy metal in there as well. And it's a genre I love.
I think it is. Yeah. And I've always found it difficult to say, ‘what sort of music do you play?’ And, I'll be like, ‘I don't know, sort of heavy rock, it’s not metal, but it is a little’ and I find it very difficult. And then, you know, especially if people haven't heard of you, and be like ‘you play in a band, what band? Like, I've never heard of you,’ and then you try explain the music and just say ‘fucking forget about it,’ anyway. And Rollins Band as well, I think it's not so much that I think we were like them, it was just there was definitely some Black Flag influence I really liked, but I couldn't ever put my finger on where it is. But again, Henry Rollins wrote really interesting, deep, sort of interested in that loner concept as well, you know, so there was similarity there. And I think that's one of the
I think it was the sludgy music behind Henry Rollins, because he obviously had its own frontman persona. He's very spoken word, and very profound. I was very, very heavy into Helmet and Henry Rollins, or Rollins Band back in the day. And then you guys were like this underground Australian band who stand alone.
Definitely. For us, it was always nice that, you know, because some, because sometimes people say, ‘Oh, you rip off a Helmet’ or whatever. And it was just interesting that, you know, when we first played with Helmet at the Prince of Wales in whenever it was, when they came out for Big Day Out, immediately there was this bond or, you know, kindred spirits sort of thing, where we got on really, really well with those guys. I remember, we went out pub and, you know, got smashed together and just had a lot of commonality. And then, obviously, and that led to that time when John Stanier was like, ‘hey, if you want me to play drums for you I will’, and you know, it'd be, it's sort of, you know, if someone from helmet felt that what we were playing was something that visibly you know, you struck a chord in them that they want to play with. So I don't think that means we're like helmet. I just think that the we're coming from a similar sort of, you know, background musical background.
You predate Helmet anyway! So, in a biblical reference, The Mark Of Cain refers to the protection God gifted Cain from premature death. Can you tell us how this name came about for the band?
I'd read Hermann Hesse ‘Demian’ the book and in it is the character Max Demian. And he has a friend who sort of notes that the main character is trying to fit in with the world. And this other guy says, ‘you don't. You're not one of them.’ You know, don't bother about standing around the piano singing your fucking football songs. You've got the Mark of Cain. And the guys like, ‘what's that?’ And he says;
“The Mark of Cain just means a bit different from other people. You don’t necessarily fit in, you’re an outsider, and you don’t have to try fit in”
I don't know it was when I read that I was like, I really love that interpretation of it. And Hesse did a different interpretation on what the Mark of Cain meant because, you know, Cain slew his brother, and at the time it was saying to God, ‘well, now everybody's going to want to murder me because of what I did.’ And then God said, Well, ‘no, if someone does that, it'll be 1000 times worse for them. So I'll put a mark on you, that means no one will touch you’. And there's all sorts of other interpretations about Cain being the one who grew wheat, and so understood what it was to not just be the mindless shepherd in the fields who understood what it was like to, to nurture something and grow it to be a God Himself. Anyway, there's a whole lot of different concepts in there. But it's really about, you know, some of us don't feel 100% connected. And I'm definitely one of them. And I think a number of people that, like our bands don't necessarily feel that they're part of the mass, the cultural mass.
And kind of fitting to what you did probably with your style of music is that it was different. It is different. Do you find any relevance in your long-lasting career and the biblical meaning behind this name? Because Cain’s not supposed to die.
Correct! He's protected.
He is protected! And so 40 years on and still touring strong!?!
Still going. Oh, you know, I think. I think the whole idea really was though, in fact another question is both Kim and I always wanted to play a music that we thought if we were walking down the street, and we heard strains of this music coming out of a pub or something, it would want us to go in and look at it. And that's what we wanted to do.
Yeah. I'm a sucker for sludge, and grimey guitars- I love it. And obviously, you made a band with your brother and you weren’t like Cain.
And well, yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah. I mean, that wasn't actually part of the whole deal. But there is, you know, there are a lot of interesting ideas around it.
So back to former Helmet drummer John Stanier joining the band in 2001. What experience and creativity has John brought to The Mark of Cain?
No. Well, man, he's obviously a consummate drummer. He's from the Juliet School of Music New York.
Interestingly, so I can't read music. I mean, I learned to when I was younger. So, he was one of those guys who he probably could tell me better what timing a song was in or where it came from. But he very much had the idea of like, ‘You're the boss. You told me what to do. And I'll do it.’ And I mean, rarely would I have to tell John what to do. But he just, he just got it. He just gets it. And we could play. And he came over, I remember a couple of times, where we just jammed. And we were just jamming riffs, wrote a lot of riffs for This Is This that he would just know what he needed to do on drums, and you just hear and go, ‘fuck, that's great.’ You know, whereas before on everything else, I used to have to get quite intricately involved in a lot of the drums in some of the stuff that was written previous to that.
So does John Stanier live here in Australia? Or is he based overseas?
He's got his own band called Battles, which has done quite well. And he plays often with Mike Patton. So he does a lot with him. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, no, he's busy. He's got his own thing that he does. So it's even more difficult to track him down. He’s always lived in the US and it was just amazing there was just this rumour at one point, when we were looking for a drummer that he was going to do it. And we hadn't asked and then his mum got in contact with him because she was like a college professor or something. And she like kept up with all the what was going on, in music. And she said, ‘what's this thing about you playing for this band in Australia?’ And he was like, ‘I don't know’. And then he rang Kim and said, ‘Have you heard this rumour?’ And he said, ‘but you know, I'd do it if you wanted me to’. And that's how he ended up playing for us.
In 2022, The Mark Of Cain were inducted into the South Australian Music Hall Of Fame, joining the likes of The Masters of Apprentices, The Angels and Cold Chisel. What has this induction meant to you and the band?
Look, it was a weird one. I was a little bit like, ‘what, what the fuck! Really?’ Because it's not like we've ever written a hit or anything that's, you know memorable that someone would be humming and you go ‘oh, that's The Mark of Cain.’ And it was odd but it was really appreciated because I think it was a nice recognition of definitely the musical peers in South Australia and understand we were nominated by the drummer from The Superjesus, which was really nice as well. Yeah, I have to be nice- I can't say anything bad about The Superjesus.
And a completely different kind of music, I suppose to those counter inductees as well.
It’s odd. It definitely came left to center for us. And we were a little bit like scratching our heads but it's, it's nice. And it's a nice thing to drop. If I'm talking to someone like through work or something. Or you're in a band and then I can casually drop well, actually, we were inducted into the South Australian Music Hall of Fame. ‘Oh, what really? Have I heard of you?’
Don’t you know who I am? (laughing)
October 27th will see the release of a re-mastered edition of ‘Ill at Ease’ Live at Livid in 1996. What memories do you hold fondly of this festival?
I do remember it.
That’s good!
Yeah it is good! I'm pretty sure I forgot my pedals. I reckon I forgot, and I'm pretty sure it was that one, I had a special pedal that I, you know, it was my sound and I reckon I left it in my boot in the car when we got on the plane and I got there and I was like fuck, where's the Boss Metalizer. And I think that's why it stands out from me. I didn't have that usual sound, but it didn't matter. I mean, it sounded really good. And, I just remember it was really hot. I reckon Storytime from Perth were down. It was a good, really, really nice time. I do remember it. And I do you remember us playing and just being amazed at how big the crowd was, and definitely that they were there for us. Which was amazing.
ILL AT EASE DELUXE 2LP
The band has had to postpone the Off The Rails tour due to your brother Kim Scott's road cycling accident. What can fans expect from this upcoming Ill At Ease tour?
It'll be much the same as usual. But I mean often we play probably 60 70% of that album anyway when we play but and we're playing the whole thing. And it was sounding great. Just before Kim's accident, I don't think that will change. And he's got this terrible pelvic contraption on at the moment with two rods that are screwed into his pelvis and come out his stomach and weep all the time. And then it's got some sort of mechano block type thing that ties it in front of him. He's getting that off Thursday next week, I think, anyway, he just has to make sure that he can stand and although he has been standing a lot because he's been in pain with a pinched nerve, you know, for a good hour and a half on stage. It'll be good. It'll be the usual no bullshit. We'll just get out there and play you know, it's not us hysterically us jumping all over the place. It's just we get there and play and quite often I feel sorry for the audience having to put up with the bludgeoning loudness that seems to occur when we play but maybe we should turn it down a little bit.
Following the ‘Ill at Ease’ tour later this year, what’s next for The Mark of Cain?
I look, we've been still noodling with riffs in that with Eli the drummer. And Kim and I, I'd really like us to try and do something, record nit and just see how it sounds. It's interesting, I don't feel like I've got as much to, you know, say when I was younger, but there's still music that we do. Sometimes I'd like to do just music, and just almost do soundscape type songs or whatever that might lend themselves to, I don't know, movie soundtracks or something like that. But I'm hoping yeah, like next year, we get to at least record some stuff and see how that sounds. And then make a decision on whether or not it's you know at a level that we want to put out. And there's never been any rule or timeline that we put on it, that we're going to stop. Although, you know, both Kim and I do we say these tours are more and more becoming like they should be sponsored by Neurofen or something like that. It’s fucking agonising sometimes, and people go, ‘Oh, wow, you guys look fucking ragged. Do you know how many weeks you've been on tour?’ And we’re like, ‘no this is the first day.’
You’ve stayed pretty relevant by touring. And do you find that you have many newer fans coming through, a younger demographic or is it more the older generation like myself?
I don't know that there's too many of the newer generation who's discovering us and wanting to see us, if anything, it would be generational of someone saying, you know, oh, this is the music my dad used to listen to. And he said, I should come to see you guys. So, we do get that sort of generational thing where there's a sons or in some cases, daughters would come and see us. And yeah, I'm not sure that we necessarily appeal to anyone new unless they're sort of like really, probably wanting to understand, you know, the animals of Australian music and who's still around from that time and who's still playing maybe as a side interest. But look, we're doing this while we can. I mean, we're never going to flog a dead horse. That's not what Kim or I have ever wanted to do. When it's time it'll be time.
I’m pretty keen to see an old school Mark Of Cain gig. Is there anything else you wanted to tell your fans out there?
Nothing more than we sort of grateful and thankful the people who stuck with us. It's always nice. And that's why we've always happy to play harder. We'll always hang around if people want to chat. afterwards. Just come up and say hi.
Catch The Mark Of Cain for dates across the country. Tickets via feelpresents.com
Nov 25: Adelaide, Hindley St. Music Hall
Dec 13: Canberra, The Basement **
Dec 15: Sydney, The Metro **
Dec 16: Brisbane, The Tivoli **
Jan 13: Fremantle, Freo Social
Jan 19: Melbourne, Croxton Bandroom
Jan 20: Hobart Uni Bar.
** special guests Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs Pigs
Interview by Pieta Clarke
Media courtesy of Dave Laing Publicity
John Scott- The Mark of Cain Interview with Music Festivals Australia, October 2024